[Ohrrpgce] Fufluns stabilization?

Ralph Versteegen teeemcee at gmail.com
Thu Mar 8 08:32:10 PST 2018


Wow. The seemingly impossible is achievable just by pressing the buttons
differently. This reminds me of that infamous story of the radiotherapy
machine which malfunctioned if the buttons were pressed too quickly by
experienced operators, faster than the programmers ever did.

On 9 March 2018 at 05:18, James Paige <Bob at hamsterrepublic.com> wrote:

> Okay, I think I figured out Feenick's problem. I can reproduce it.
>
> You and I both always use "Enter" to choose an attack, so we never saw it.
> I'll bet Feenick is always using "Space" to choose an attack, which is why
> he sees it every time.
>
> Typing space causes a text search for the next attack name that has a
> space in it, and then it picks that one instead. I should be able to fix it
> pretty easily.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 7:18 AM, Ralph Versteegen <teeemcee at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> He's selecting an attack in the attack browser (using keyboard keys), but
>> it keeps opening a different attack than the one he selected. On Windows.
>>
>> 4:12 AM*] **tmc**: *do you see thate very time you enter the attack
>> editor? what if you open another game, like Vikings?
>> *[*4:13 AM*] **Feenick**: *Let's see
>> *[*4:14 AM*] **Feenick**: *Yeah Except it's attack 10 there
>> *[*4:15 AM*] **tmc**: *when you hit New, you mean
>> *[*4:15 AM*] **Feenick**: *Still 10
>>
>>
>> On 9 March 2018 at 04:14, James Paige <Bob at hamsterrepublic.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I can't tell what is going on from the gif
>>>
>>> Could this be a platform specific bug? What platform is Feenick using?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, March 8, 2018, Ralph Versteegen <teeemcee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8 March 2018 at 15:57, Ralph Versteegen <teeemcee at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 March 2018 at 08:08, James Paige <Bob at hamsterrepublic.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 6:34 AM, Ralph Versteegen <teeemcee at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7 March 2018 at 18:32, James Paige <Bob at hamsterrepublic.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018, Ralph Versteegen <teeemcee at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Must-merge" is such an emotional phrasing!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hehe!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The problems with the spriteset editor are:
>>>>>>>>> -you can't import or export spritesets. This is definitely a
>>>>>>>>> blocker. A number of people are not using nightlies for this reason.
>>>>>>>>> -the cursor keys are super wonky, so I need to check in my
>>>>>>>>> plankmenu arrow keys rewrite
>>>>>>>>> -it's extremely slow due to the way that default palettes are
>>>>>>>>> stored and loaded. Eg. POWERXE.RPG takes about 8 seconds to bring up the
>>>>>>>>> walkabouts menu for me. I have a branch where I replace defpal#.bin with
>>>>>>>>> rgfx
>>>>>>>>> -frame names like "hurt", "attack B" etc are missing. I have a
>>>>>>>>> branch for that too
>>>>>>>>> -the obsolete .pt# and .mxs lumps aren't deleted yet
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also have a large collection of unrelated bug reports, but we
>>>>>>>>> could work on those after feature freeze (I should get back work on
>>>>>>>>> migration the bug trackers too... was having problems installing perl
>>>>>>>>> modules)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But my actual argument against going to feature freeze now is that
>>>>>>>>> it would be sad to delay such game-changing features such as animations by
>>>>>>>>> three months, when they're almost ready and we've already paid most the
>>>>>>>>> instability cost. For example, I can make walktall obsolete just by adding
>>>>>>>>> a simple prompt asking what size spriteset you want to add. (Abitrary enemy
>>>>>>>>> and hero sprite sizes are enabled by a branch where I've done heaps of
>>>>>>>>> battle code cleanup and partially converted battles to slices)
>>>>>>>>> I know this is the same reason we always ended up delaying
>>>>>>>>> releases by months or even years, but in this case I think it's more like
>>>>>>>>> days!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Okay! I have rescheduled my alert for a secret time in the near
>>>>>>>> future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't figure out whether it's more or less stressing to have a
>>>>>>> secret deadline!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Haha! (wrings hands like an evil supervillian)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there anything I can do to help you with all your pending stuff?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately it's hard for me to suggest anything right now; I
>>>>>>> really need to merge in what I have to avoid conflicts, and to provide APIs
>>>>>>> and examples to work with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, I just remembered: there will be a problem with Test Game once
>>>>>>> you can add more frames to an existing sprite set: updating the sprite
>>>>>>> cache won't work. The solution is to always use Sprite slices in-game
>>>>>>> instead of Frame ptrs. I've converted battle sprites to slices, but I
>>>>>>> believe there were still one or two places not using slices which need
>>>>>>> converting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you wanted to, a completely separate project would be to remove
>>>>>>> the 16-color limit. At this point I'm assuming that we aren't going to
>>>>>>> delay release for it. We have almost no code left that still assumes a
>>>>>>> Palette16 has 16 colours. 95% of the remaining work is to replace the .pal
>>>>>>> lump and to update the sprite editor UI. I haven't started on either. (As
>>>>>>> part of finishing off PNG support, I'm already updating the import/export
>>>>>>> code which explicitly asks for 4-bit bmps)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We could also start working through all these bugs. Here are some
>>>>>>> I've written down:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -This morning Feenicks wrote: "oh yeah, tmc: I still seem to be
>>>>>>> getting the bug where pressing the 'new' button or pressing the end key to
>>>>>>> get to the end of the list sends me to attack 23"
>>>>>>> I haven't looked into it or asked what he meant. If he said so
>>>>>>> earlier, I forgot.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll see if I can get ahold of him and ask. I haven't seen anything
>>>>>> like that yet
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked him some questions and tried to reproduce it in various games
>>>>> and builds, and can't. I looked at the code and those symptoms seem
>>>>> impossible, which I guess means the only possible explanation is memory
>>>>> corruption (or a miscompile). Pressing the New button should go to
>>>>> gen(genMaxAttack), I don't see any other possibility unless the slice
>>>>> pointers are mixed up.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Feenick**: *Currently have 178 attacks. Still going to attack 23
>>>>> when I try making a new attack
>>>>> *tmc**: *so you don't get the "new blank attack/copy of X" menu?
>>>>> *tmc**: *or do you get that, but afterwards it opens attack 23?
>>>>> *Feenick**: *nah, just goes straight to attack 23
>>>>>
>>>>> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/275093413152555018/
>>>>> 421096093137240074/beyondthedoor0006.gif
>>>>>
>>>>> *Feenick**: *Had the same issue with delinquent.rpg, just with
>>>>> another attack slot
>>>>> *tmc**: *what version are you using?
>>>>> *Feenick**: *2018-02-25
>>>>>
>>>>> *tmc**: *and this always happens regardly of how you enter the attack
>>>>> browser (eg from another menu), and the End key likewise always does the
>>>>> same?
>>>>> *Feenick**: *The end key just goes to the end of the menu
>>>>> *tmc**: *oooh
>>>>> *tmc**: *"3:42 AM] Feenick: oh yeah, tmc: I still seem to be getting
>>>>> the bug where pressing the 'new' button or pressing the end key to get to
>>>>> the end of the list sends me to attack 23"
>>>>> *tmc**: *so that was wrong?
>>>>> *Feenick**: *Maybe?
>>>>> *Feenick**: *Using the home key to get up to the top menu doesn't
>>>>> result in anything wrong.
>>>>> *tmc**: *can you still select attacks above 23 in places like the
>>>>> enemy attacks menu?
>>>>> *tmc**: *without entering the attack browser, I mean(edited)
>>>>> *Feenick**: *It's pressing left on the attack menu while on the left
>>>>> column, then going over to the new attack button, that causes the problem
>>>>> *tmc**: *oh!
>>>>> *tmc**: *but that works for me
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It gets worse!
>>>>
>>>> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/275093196852166667/42
>>>> 1290083124117504/beyondthedoor0008.gif
>>>>
>>>> *[*3:18 AM*] **tmc**: *does it still happen fi you quit and reenter
>>>> the menu
>>>> *[*3:18 AM*] **tmc**: *or quit and reenter the program?
>>>> *[*3:21 AM*] **Feenick**: *let's see
>>>> *[*3:22 AM*] **Feenick**: *Still being wonky
>>>> *[*3:23 AM*] **Feenick**: *Lemme download the newest nightly and see
>>>> if it's still an issue
>>>> *[*3:26 AM*] **Feenick**: *Still having the issue...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Foxley pointed out it's no longer possible to go from the enemy
>>>>>>> attacks menu to the attacks editor. (Confirmed)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is already taken care of. When I switched to the AttackBrowser,
>>>>>> the only way to get into attack edit mode was the non-discoverable CTRL+E
>>>>>> keyboard shortcut.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since then I have made it so you can right click on an attack and go
>>>>>> to the attack editor from the pop-up context menu.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, I was going to amend my email to say I forgot about that.
>>>>> Unfortunately right-clicking is also hard to discover, because nothing
>>>>> else in the engine uses it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Foxley reported a Self-target On-death attack causes the on-death
>>>>>>> attack to trigger again, looping forever (Confirmed)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hmm... that sounds like something I would have done by design... but
>>>>>> perhaps the bad kind of "by design" ;)
>>>>>> I know I wanted to make it possible for an on-death-bequest attack to
>>>>>> trigger a self-targetting attack that heals the enemy and prevents the
>>>>>> death, and I know I did a lot of testing of self-targeting on-death-bequest
>>>>>> attacks that transmogrify the enemy into a different form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess I didn't test on-death-bequest attacks that don't fall into
>>>>>> either of the above categories. I am curious what Foxley's specific
>>>>>> use-case was. I'll ask him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When testing it, it felt like a really blatant bug. It's actually
>>>>> quite a natural thing to want to do, to show an on-death message or perform
>>>>> other effects like setting a tag.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I think we really need three new attack bitsets: "Never triggers
>>>>> counter attacks", "Don't trigger counter attacks on miss/fail". We only
>>>>> have a bit to not trigger elemental counterattacks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Foxley reported that F9 Reimport Scripts while in any part of the
>>>>>>> tileset editor wipes the tileset. (Confirmed) He did some really thorough
>>>>>>> testing showing that whether it permanently wipes it, or it just appears
>>>>>>> black until you reenter the menu, depends on which submenu of the tileset
>>>>>>> editor you're in. But unfortunately I didn't copy it down. Should be an
>>>>>>> easy fix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yikes! I can look at that too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -make sure James documents "current vehicle id" and "current vehicle
>>>>>>> npc" and adds them to whatsnew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> /me pretends he didn't completely forget about those
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -"Reset stored target" happens after "Store Target", so if you set
>>>>>>> both bits on the same attack, Store Target does nothing. But being able to
>>>>>>> set both bits would be very useful, makes Store Target work the way you
>>>>>>> would expect it does. It's not enough to swap the order the bits take
>>>>>>> effect, because inflict() is called multiple times if there are multiple
>>>>>>> targets. Instead Reset stored target needs to happen before the first
>>>>>>> inflict() call
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good point!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh, also that bit for capping negative stats Surlaw asked for; I
>>>>>>> feel bad not getting around to that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember that one! And didn't we decide that one bitset would be
>>>>>> good enough, we didn't need a full low-end-stat-cap feature with equal
>>>>>> complexity to the upper-end stat cap feature, right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's right.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 7 March 2018 at 17:11, James Paige <Bob at hamsterrepublic.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My calendar alerts went off again. How are you feeling about
>>>>>>>>>> starting Fufluns stabilization, tmc? What must-merge branches do you still
>>>>>>>>>> have for it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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