[Ohrrpgce] SVN: pkmnfrk/2428 Breaking the ground on my XML idea. for the time being, I'm not hacking

[James Paige]

I probably won't be able to make it to IRC, but save a log for me please 
(or post it on the list if nobody else shows up)

---
James

On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 01:09:21AM +0000, Mike Caron wrote:
> Well, i'm going to be home about 11:30 EST. Want to meet on IRC to
> discuss it? I have an idea which should satisfy everyone, and is too
> long to type on a cell phone :)
> 
> On 11/5/08, James Paige <Bob at hamsterrepublic.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 01:41:23PM -0500, Mike Caron wrote:
> >> James Paige wrote:
> >> >On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 12:03:28AM -0800, subversion at HamsterRepublic.com
> >> >wrote:
> >> >>pkmnfrk
> >> >>2008-11-05 00:03:27 -0800 (Wed, 05 Nov 2008)
> >> >>467
> >> >>Breaking the ground on my XML idea. for the time being, I'm not hacking
> >> >>the OHR directly. Instead, I'm going to work on a separate "test"
> >> >> program.
> >> >>
> >> >>The main reason is because using libxml adds three DLLs as dependencies,
> >> >>
> >> >>and I'm going to try and make them all static libraries, or at least
> >> >> roll
> >> >>them into one DLL.
> >> >>
> >> >>I assume this is not such a big deal on Linux, since Linux users are
> >> >> used
> >> >>to having to apt-get a bunch of stuff before trying new things out,
> >> >>right? :P
> >> >
> >> >I was reading up on the differences between XML, YAML and JSON. I really
> >> >liked the minimalism of those other formats. XML really is astonishingly
> >> >bulky.
> >>
> >> Truthfully, I'd never heard of YAML until this very moment. However, I
> >> glossed over the spec to get an idea of it, and here are my thoughts,
> >> and why I like XML.
> >>
> >> YAML: It uses indentation for block levels. As I'm sure I've expressed
> >> before, I dislike this, due to the possibility of screwing it up by
> >> having the wrong tab settings as the last guy. Indentation is good,
> >> delineation by indentation is bad, IMO. It also prevents me from copying
> >> one block from any random place and popping it in wherever I want
> >> without fixing the indentation. (altogether, this is also why I
> >> personally can't stand python)
> >
> > Interesting. That never bothered me about python, because I was already
> > used to re-indenting when copying-and-pasting in every other language I
> > have worked in. (just because python is the only language that enforces
> > indentation, doesn't mean I don't religiously indent in every other
> > language)
> >
> >> JSON: If you look at the example page
> >> (http://www.json.org/example.html), then you'll notice something
> >> disconcerting. Barring the last example (a servlet definition), the XML
> >> versions of all those examples are more readable. It may not be as
> >> concise, but it... I dunno, it looks better to me. Also, the fact that I
> >> can't see at a glance which brace matches which block bugs me, slightly.
> >
> > Ah, I think I spot a big reason why we disagree about this. For you, an
> > important goal of using XML is the human-readability, right?
> >
> > For me, human readability iss nice-to-have, but it isn't a big deal. I
> > can see myself looking at the text of a data file to verify that it
> > serialized correctly, but I wouldn't dream of hand editing or
> > copying-and-pasting unless I had no other choice.
> >
> > What is cool about XML to me is the fact that it can store hierarchical
> > tree-like data, the fact that it can store variable length lists of
> > arbitrary objects, and the fact that new data members can be easily
> > inserted and old data will just get the defaults.
> >
> > ...Byt other formats fith the above description just fine. I could even
> > make a binary format that had all those features.
> >
> >> XML: Yes, XML is the bulkiest of the lot. But, it's the most mature
> >> format as well. And, lots of tool support is available. But, the thing
> >> that really sells me on XML is that I could, in theory, write an XSLT
> >> stylesheet, attach it to my textbox document, and get a preview of every
> >> textbox in my game, for example. Or, also in theory, I could embed every
> >> data lump in one document (if I ever decided that was necessary or a
> >> good idea).
> >
> > If we are talking XML as an import/export format, I can't find any
> > argument against it, but as an internal format, I don't care for it.
> >
> >> Lastly, for the purposes of OHR development, XML is the only format in
> >> the bunch that has a library included with the compiler. For the other
> >> formats, I'd have to translate their headers into FB, which may or may
> >> not be impossible (it likely is possible, but it's still a lot of work).
> >
> > Yeah, I do see that XML headers come with FreeBasic.
> >
> > The inclusion of another dll dependency isn't a dealbreaker, but I am
> > not excited about it. I do notice that libxml2.dll + iconv.dll >
> > (SLD.dll + SDl_mixer.dll) * 2
> >
> > ---
> > James Paige
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ohrrpgce mailing list
> > ohrrpgce at lists.motherhamster.org
> > http://lists.motherhamster.org/listinfo.cgi/ohrrpgce-motherhamster.org
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mike Caron
> Tale of the Cave
> http://taleotc.com
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